Curse

Lucifer PVP · May 04, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Use the Challenge missions. People who have the high score for the day get access, for month get access and all time get access. Along with the holding alliance. Better then a gold sink?

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

/agree with the OP x1000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

Here's another idea. Why not increase faction point decay according to the size of the alliance? Or have a proportional reduction in the amount an alliance benefits from faction gifts according to its size? Obviously it wouldn't be 1:1 (as that would remove the point in having alliances), but perhaps 1:2 or 1:3. That would still give an incentive to get in an alliance, but give smaller groupings more of a chance to gain control.

nice idea in theory, but i fear it wouldn't have that much effect in the long term...all that would happen is the top alliances would figure out the exact number of ppl they can have to get the least decay and the most faction farming...once that number is calculated and attained, things will go back to being the way they are now...plus, this senario leaves the door open for the "50k for elite mission access" crap...

Kakumei · May 04, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I'm not angry solely because I can't get access. I'm angry thanks to the shitty system that is in place to PROVIDE access. I'm not going to go back and find the posts I wanted to quote, but I'll try to offer a rebuttal to some here.

"If you're not prepared to compete, why should you get to complain?"

Because I shouldn't HAVE to compete. I shouldn't have to grind my life away for faction just to be able to enter what Anet made out to be the be-all, end-all of PVE in this game. I'm complaining because this is an awful system--I shouldn't have to compete, this is PVE. The Favor system was dumb, this system is even worse.

"that dumb sports analogy"

Oh come the hell on. Get out.

"Go do something else. Don't care about the elite missions"

Yeah uh like what?

After you beat Shiro, there is nothing to do in PVE. Nothing.

wren e · May 04, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

There is a very simple answer to this solution to this problem. Granted that not everyone can acess an elite mission whenever they want, we knew that was going to happen. So what you do is have your guild join in an alliance with another guild, could be friends or people you respect. Then you guys can do the missions or alliance battles and save your faction points and have a turn in date for your alliance. Also remember, the elite missions are designed to be a reward to those that have grinded to get the faction points. Or if you that sounds like too much work to earn it yourself, try and join one of the large allainces and piggy back off of their hard work. I'm sure that people are doing this already.

Mitsu Bishi · May 04, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

After you beat Shiro, there is nothing to do in PVE. Nothing.

And after you beat the elite mission, what's the difference? It's one more mission to do and then you have the same problem. It's not like this mission changes in any way every time you play it again.

shadowfell · May 04, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Package it any way you like, this is all amounting to 100% elitism, exclusivity and exclusion, trying to see it any other way is a big stroke job to AN, and a bigger stroke job to the guilds/alliances whose asses you have to kiss to even THINK about seeing the inside of one of these missions.

Also, to whoever said, and I quote the vague point here, "well, you must be a sucky player anyhow, if you can't get into the elite missions"... That is complete, crap.

Nothing is more frustrating than getting through arborstone, with henchies alone, and quite successfully, to see you can't go any further than that because you have nothing to do with an alliance that controls point A. Gee.. If I managed to get through that mission with henchies, I must be a shitty player by your standards.. No wonder I don't deserve the next mission.

Please, give me a break. This system is broken and is frustrating, and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Maybe some people don't want to have to pay 500k for a pair of nifty looking daggers. They shouldn't HAVE to. But just because some tail smoocher rides an alliances coat tails, they get the opportunity at these missions? Where is the skill in that...

What do I have to do to gain access to these missions if my guild leader, who is also my friend, is the one deciding what guilds we ally with and trust me, the faction ISN'T happening here. So now I have to ditch my guild mates and friends? Nice promo AN..Sick of this crap already and it has only been a week.. I'm not the only one either.

AN knew people would shit their pants and die twice when the rumours of this began to spread beforehand. They wouldn't fess up to it directly however, because, the pre order numbers to them were bank. I doubt they will do anything about it either, but oh well, chase away enough core players and see how high the pre orders for CH3 are.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wren e

There is a very simple answer to this solution to this problem. Granted that not everyone can acess an elite mission whenever they want, we knew that was going to happen. So what you do is have your guild join in an alliance with another guild, could be friends or people you respect. Then you guys can do the missions or alliance battles and save your faction points and have a turn in date for your alliance. Also remember, the elite missions are designed to be a reward to those that have grinded to get the faction points. Or if you that sounds like too much work to earn it yourself, try and join one of the large allainces and piggy back off of their hard work. I'm sure that people are doing this already.

ummm...did you read the posts of the ppl who hate the new system?...the whole point is, unless you're in a huge alliance, you have little or no chance to enter the elite missions...and, on top of that, even if most ppl knew enough other guilds with whom they would be willing to align, the numbers would not be anywhere near enough to compete with the huge alliancesand if they wanted to try to compete, it would take hours upon hours of faction farming to do so....

so, this system leaves me with the following impressions:

- time spent (aka grind) > skill
- numbers > comradery
- hardcore player > casual player

nohooiam · May 04, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

how about just asking the alliance holding the town for access?

i dont think its such an unreasonable request.

SpeedyKQ · May 04, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I don't want to have to choose between disbanding my small RL friends guild and accessing elite missions. Doesn't mean I'm not competative. Doesn't mean I'm not skilled. Doesn't mean I'm not willing to work for things.

As I've mentioned before, any of these solutions would satisfy me:

Cap alliances at 1000 players instead of 10 guilds.

Give each elite mission a faction price that the controlling alliance doesn't have to pay.

Throw out the whole "access to content as a reward for mostly other people's work" idea, which is the dumbest thing about this otherwise brilliant game series.

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

That thread smells so much like politics. I know Inde doesn't want it like that but hey, this is just so clear...
"Don't like to be poor? Then get a better job."
Goddamnit, like I'm not trying my ass off already to make a living for me and others!

Don't like to be refused access to an area you paid for with real money? Then become a part of the 0.01% elite. Which will lead to the challenge being harder and harder...

Minus Sign · May 04, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

*cough* damn crow feathers *cough* I hate eating my own words; Damn you Anet!*cough*

I backed Anet on this issue. Strongly supported them. I mean, after the Favor fiasco that got so many people pissed at them, there was no way they'd make the same mistake twice. Right? No company wants to alienate their customer base; its just not good business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

what I am afraid they're trying to do is turn this action-pumped game of skill into a zombie-grind on massive scale.

QTF. Personal merit should be the deciding factor on the missions you can access in a competitive based game, not the size of your damn guild or the location of your home servers.

Anet...you're morons. So you know, its cost you 400 dollars so far. I've told several RL and online friends that had been considering buying both since it the franchise made it to sequal not to bother with Guild Wars. Sucks for both of us. I was going to invite them to my nice little guild and show them the ropes. Would have been fun, but I won't endorse them wasting their money on a game I know they won't enjoy.

I'ma do what I can to get my 50$ worth out of Factions and probably say Gbye to this company and its products. Too many headgames for the content they provide and I dislike rewarding vendors with my money when they don't learn from their mistakes. But I can't really blame them. Anet, you've fooled me twice. Shame on me. And the rule of nine says my own chain is not finished yet. When 10 people like something, 9 of them won't say anything positive. But when 10 people don't like something, 9 of them will tell their neighbors.

When the majority of your customer base is telling you "We don't like your game anymore" you can bet your ass they're saying it elsewhere.

I know, several of you will reply with the standard fare "Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you" but thats my view.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

how about just asking the alliance holding the town for access?

i dont think its such an unreasonable request.

and what's to stop them from saying "Sure, we'll let you in...for 50k a person..."?

if ppl did that, it's extra $$ for the powerful alliances...if not, who cares?...they still control the mish either way...at least with the favor system, you couldn't pay someone to win HoH so you could get to UW/FoW...this system puts way too much power in the hands of a reletively small number of players who have no rules whatsoever governing how they use that power....

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Someone please point out to me the part where Anet said they were going to introduce forced grind for access to content.

They've always said the opposite:

Guild Wars... it's not about how long you spend online, it's about skill.

At least that's what it was initially. What I want to know is how does grinding for faction to access content have anything to do with skill!!

It doesn't and I'm a fool for having taken ANet at their word on this and on other stuff like 6*100%.

Caveat Emptor!

Fitz Rinley · May 04, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Didn't enough people complain about that? Why would they make something worse?

It's like they only listened to the complaints about how PvP was affecting PvE, and thought they had a really great idea about how PvE players could get in on it, and didn't really think about how exclusive it still was, and how it shits all over smal guilds and casual players.

I thought the complaints about favor expressed not so much that people had a problem with PvP controlling PvE, but that people *just don't like* exclusionary systems like this.

PvE players asked for an alternative access to PvE content that is currently controlled by a minority (and they will always be a minority) of professional level HoH players.

Now, ANet has come up with a way to be prejudicial in even greater levels against all casual, non-peak, and non-PvP players. The point appears to be, ''We will cajole, coerce, or force by any method we can create all players to deny their individual creativity and conform to PvP standards of submission to elitest arogant bragadocios. This includes creating elitest arogant boastful guilds which will deny the non-submitters access to the game they paid us for.

Fitz Rinley

QoH · May 04, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

and what's to stop them from saying "Sure, we'll let you in...for 50k a person..."?

Well lets say they do not charge money, but honestly will they ever choose a foreign player instead of their guildmates to do the mission? I am sure not.

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Wow, you guys are awesome.

Gli -- So you think that guilds like iGi, Char, Te and iQ are all real life friends before they started? Have you seen any guild in the top 20 that are all -friends in real life- before making their guild?

Are you really that blindsinded? Do you try to get a job at ANet or what?
I play the game with a bunch of friends met in-game, cool, laidback people and we still do good. We're like 7 really motivated by both PvE and PvP... We can do some tricky stuff in PvE just fine and we have our fair share of winning in PvP. But that's it. Between 15 and 20 members in the guild... How are we supposed to compete for access to those missions?

I'll tell you one thing, GvG requires 8 people and that's it. It's achievable to build such a team and practice. There we're talking massive groups of guildies/allianced. For grinding. It's different from individual practice and small-group organisation.

People are complaining because they have a problem. Obviously you don't. Why do you even bother to be in that thread? You're doing just fine, right? You're not part of the problem for us, so what's the big deal in you posting so much? You don't even discuss, you're sitting there spitting "get competitive, get competitive". Man, how many times do we have to tell you we like the game because in some ways it's merit over grind?

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

"Go do something else. Don't care about the elite missions"

Yeah uh like what?

After you beat Shiro, there is nothing to do in PVE. Nothing.

Holy crap Kakumei! You hit the nail on the head. I read this and it was like getting hit by lightning. ANet doesn't want you to do any PvE (or very little) after you finish the story line.

All they want you to do is PvP grind for faction. PvE is a reward for PvP. I should have seen this with FoW/UW and favor.

Proof:
1. Gates... no more running for plats.
2. Lame FedEx quests... who wants to do these over.
3. PvE tied to PvP. Elite missions are not accessible unless you get faction. The fastest way to get it is to PvP.
4. Farming/economy nerf. Higher drop rates of golds mean there's less incentive to take a PvE approach to this game. There are still farmable mobs, but nothing on the scale of Prophecies.

Lex Talionis · May 04, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I agree that this system is crap. After ppl beat the game, (which doesn't take long imo) they shouldn't have to grind endlessly for faction to donate to their alliance so they could get access to these "elite missions". What if instead of all this owning territory bs, we can just donate the faction towards entering these areas? Now wouldnt that be more fun??

A bit off topic, what i really want to know is why in the hell we can't team up with our alliance members for the 12 v 12 alliance battles?? I mean wth is the point of having 10 guilds allied if we can't even team up for an alliance battle. No, seriously someone answer this as i'm baffled. I'm sick + gdamn tired of being in an alliance battle with 8 other ppl (there is 12 in a team + 4 of those members are guildies) who i don't even know + have no control over wth they do making us lose.

This wasn't fully planned out. Or maybe i'm insane

I'm also pretty sure noone from Anet will address any of these concerns. Either way guess i'll go do some skill capping to kill my boredom.

baz777 · May 04, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Still doesn't change the fact that the system is unfair to 99% of the players.

Those 99% who contribute 99% of the turnover/profits yet are excluded.

Good business practice that!

Fitz Rinley · May 04, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Wow, you guys are awesome.

Gli -- So you think that guilds like iGi, Char, Te and iQ are all real life friends before they started? Have you seen any guild in the top 20 that are all -friends in real life- before making their guild?

It is no crime to become friends while playing in virtual reality. It is a crime to set a system of grind that requires one to abandon one's real life friends and family for attainment. The game for the casual player is eliminated completely. It is equally immoral to establish elitest non-casual player control over access to the full content of the game they paid to play.

ANet has taken the flexibility out of th egame and is creating a rigid caste sytem that will exclude many players. Especially given that more adults play this kind of game than children, some fair percentage being those in between. I was there when Pong made the national news. I have over 30 years of my life having access to video games from the very first Atari, Asteroids, Pacman, wargames by SSI, Eastern Front, Donkey Kong, Bard's Tales, The Legend of Zelda, Sim City, Ultima, Gauntlet, Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone (early 90s), Myst, Tekken, Battlemech, etc. up thru Spyro, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter's Night, Sacred, KotOR, and even Guild Wars. I have RPG experience from Enguarde, Harn, Castle Faulkenstien, White Wolf, Dugneons and Dragons, Traveller (Original up), etc. ANet has taken a stand that principly children play these games. That stand is not correct. Children also play these games, but parents are more likely to buy (and get into) things they also remember as enjoyable.

Gamers today are more sophisticated than a bunch of 8-10 year olds getting access to their first big computer with 2 whole k of memory in their Atari or TRS 80. Nor are we only pre-tweenies looking to bash someone to pieces to relieve hormonal stress, feel powerful, or boast. We are also real life people who want to play what we expected when we shelled out our limited dollars without being controlled or excluded by elites. Real adults get enough of that at work or in college, and are mature enough to run their own lives at home. We don't want it, we dont need it, and we have done noting to be punished for in wanting to be and play for ourself expression with our friends and family.

Fitz